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Online-only events#1842
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This would be relevant to online courses (or rather CourseInstances. We currently have a courseMode property which can have the value 'online'. I wouldn't mind having an OnlineEvent subtype, and using multiple types in markup for online course instances. Putting the registration URL in the Offer would be compatible with how we dealt with Courses (though we didn't deal with registration) With respect to your very last point, the archive recording of an event is a Creative Work; recordedIn and recordedAt can be used to link from the recording to the Event |
This was discussed extensively, and then left hanging, in issue (#406), with the options of either new Event subtype (OnlineEvent ?), which could be used on its own or be added as an additionalType if it was an online instance of say a LiteraryEvent; or adding some form of category property for Event. I think it may be worth resurrecting that discussion ether on that issue, or here. |
Of these, I think OnlineEvent is best approach as it allows us to add properties relevant to online events. If something is both an OnlineEvent and a BusinessEvent, authors should specify both types. |
Yeah, let's get better at this. Sounds like rough consensus towards OnlineEvent so far? @scor @rvguha @tmarshbing @nicolastorzec @tilid any thoughts? If we do this, let's add more consistency than confusion. That means we will need:
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+1 to the seeming consensus surrounding the use of OnlineEvent, especially as per the comment of @vholland it allows us to craft properties specific to online events (and, as she also says, this can be combined with other Event subtypes by employing multi-typed entities). |
Quickly:
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Just to bump this, we've identified the same need over here openactive/modelling-opportunity-data#71 and were also going for a subclass, however totally agree with the comment at #406 (comment) that there are already a number of subclasses for specific types of event (and we're defining more as part of OpenActive), so perhaps the solution does need to based on properties of |
While I still think something like OnlineEvent could work in order to indicate and event occurs online, reviewing the current classes and subclasses, and considering the comments from @nicolastorzec and @nickevansuk, it struck me that OnlineEvent would be something of an orange in a barrel of apples. That is, the current Event subclasses are focused on describing the event classes topically - what kind of events they are. With OnlineEvent we'd be describing instead an event's structure - how the event can be accessed. To reiterate an point I raised in opening this issue, events are not infrequently take place both at a physical location and online, requiring (as per a comment from @vholland) - if OnlineEvent was employed - that both OnlineEvent and some other event type be specified (e.g. a New York City Ballet performance in New York that was also live-streamed would need to be both an OnlineEvent and a DanceEvent). Which of course is readily expressible as a multi-type entity (MTE), but I've found that working with MTEs can be problematic both in terms of engineering and human classification of resources. A property-based approach suggested by @nickevansuk does seem to me to be more extensible, and would obviate the need to classify a single event of being of two Event types. |
Hmm, no, you are not going down the rabbit hole far enough, sorry. A single property won't do. There is too much under the covers that we are forgetting about. I feel a Type would be better. But a "better Type" for what we are trying to express. Start with describing WHAT "online" actually means in various contexts. Here's a few...
What if we happened to just create a new type of "OnlineThing" ? open_access - ??? |
@thadguidry is right, there are several aspects of an online event, that could not be captured in a single property. Analogous to a [physical] location or place - where, online, it is taking place. Possibly we are talking about an "OnlineLocation" as a new expected type for the location property as against an OnlineThing. Just thinking out loud... ~Richard. |
+1 for something like OnlineLocation, agree there are more properties to consider and this fits nicely with the idea of describing where it is (online) and not what it is (a running group). Also bringing in my comment from openactive/modelling-opportunity-data#71 (comment) suggest the use of the word “Virtual” instead of “Online” as it covers more use cases (AR, app-assisted competitions, streaming events). So “VirtualLocation”. This could be applied to app-assisted running as to live-streaming fitness classes, opera or a business conference. Why this is not a
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+1 to VirtualLocation (aka OnlineLocation aka OnlinePlace aka VirtualPlace). FWIW this is more-or-less what we've ended up doing at EA in order to satisfy the requirements of our competitive gaming events, which can either take place online or at brick-and-mortar locations, in the case of the former using location called "Online" of type (It would be simpler to mint |
@nickevansuk (Its best to use our mailing list for questions and rebounding... things get mixed up a lot on our issues enough already. Then when things are clear for you, you can come back to an issue and bring your well constructed opinion. Thanks!) In this issue, I think we are discussing a proposed higher level type to capture common properties for lots of ONLINE things. Some folks are limiting the conversation to just Event subtypes and @RichardWallis is narrowing and guiding towards Location (since ONLINE implies a Place). I am proposing (and @philbarker ) that there are many more ONLINE things, like Tele-medicine, Educational courses, etc. where the Place, or as you suggest VirtualLocation, brings along many other additional properties. I am NOT OK for using "Location" in the name of the proposed higher level type. It narrows too much for the wide usage that will be needed to capture the common properties of Access, Logins, Search, Participation, Registration, etc. For your particular case, (and @Aaranged opening use case at the top of this issue) We already have you covered. :)
@nickevansuk @Aaranged given the above, let us know what other properties or relationships you cannot construct with what we currently have. Give us the use cases themselves. And preferably on our mailing list, as it will likely be a Q/A session for everyone, but its up to you. |
@Aaranged - Agreed re: subtype of Interestingly a key assumption here is that To take a practical example, describing the virtual events here: https://www.fitswarm.com.
So perhaps we subclass Example below:
@thadguidry - apologies our messages crossed over, will continue on mailing list in future, just thought I'd post this final thought. Using |
What has happened on this over the last 12 months? |
This really needs more attention, same situation as others describe. Google doesn't recognize |
One more vote here to get this in, seems there's quite a bit of consensus already... |
Yes please! |
I had particular problem describing a performer in a music video that was also a scheduled broadcast event. There is also the case of a performer who may have a residency at a club https://schema.org/Schedule might also be included? And finally, a lot of these events become perpetual on YouTube or other hosts, so even though the event may be over, it could be useful to have an archive-url property |
Resurrecting this discussion in light of many events moving to be online in the face of COVID-19. It looks like we were close to agreeing on It seems what remains is whether to make |
As this is timely, I have put together PR #2488 |
Exciting to see this moving! Just to promote my suggestion above: perhaps Taking this further, perhaps we should just extend So the following subclasses of
We might then want to add a generic |
Which direction is this going in? Google has already started jumping on "eventAttendanceMode" (which is what led me here) but I don't want to start the process of adding it to my output if it's going to change to a virtual location. |
Yeah, the 7.0 push and Google's approach feels frustratingly inconsistent with what's been previously discussed here. |
Can this be reopened? I don't understand why this would be closed while this is not resolved and is still being actively discussed by multiple people. |
When an event is mixed, is there any guideline proposed to best describe the event? https://schema.org/Event allows for one location to be associated with the event which is fine for a fully Online or Offline event. For a mixed event, I imagine we could link the event to two locations, one VirtualLocation and one Place/Physical but I can't find anything on schema.org explicitely describing this. Seems google just went ahead with this 2-location implementation: https://developers.google.com/search/docs/data-types/event#mixed-online-event |
I've reopened this as it appears that it was victim to the slightly too aggressive settings on the github-actions bot. @kaore, as multiple values are possible for all properties in Schema.org the example you reference is a valid interpretation. However, subject to further discussions around this pending term, it would be useful if some examples were posted for both VirtualLocation and and a mixed event. |
@RichardWallis any reference made about the location on https://schema.org/Event is singular and the few discussions I've seen do not indicate that an Event can be described with multiple locations. Here for instance, the advice given on the same topic (2 physical locations though) is to create two Events, one for each location. You'll find here a few events with mixed attendance. One of them is a prizes ceremony which can be attended to online as well as where the event takes place. Another is a day-long event parts of which are retransmitted online. |
Google Rich Snippets Example: Note that this is a singular Event, each event should have its own URL (leaf page). (I was doing research on event snippets when Covid struck, Google seemed to have pushed this through in a matter of days) Mixed online and offline event
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Given the current situation, event platforms and tools are in high demand of such a "virtual"/online addition. |
I suggest we create examples for a virtual only and a mixed online/offline event (the Google developers one?), and add them to the VirtualLocation & Event pages. As an aside, Event already has 17 examples making it possibly a little overwhelming for some users. Maybe some culling would be in order, alongside the creation of events associated documentation providing broader guidance. |
@RichardWallis Also, I believe that because of false events being posted, Google / Youtube has partnered with the following ticket vendors. It is quite likely that event markup is futile unless the tickets as being sold though a partner channel. The Rich Snippet Tool doesn't seem to even detect event markup. Supported ticketers
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release candidate wording feedback in https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-schemaorg/2020Nov/0011.html - we could improve the definition of MixedEventAttendanceMode |
Do we consider this issue can be closed following the V11.0 release? |
For examples of virtual locations such as Online Streamed Events, we can have a URL field which can point towards the link to the streamed event. Let us say we have an online streamed event which contains a URL pointing towards the link, and separate information for Is it possible to create a schema construction for virtualLocation events to accommodate this additional information of |
What does it take to move the VirtualLocation type and Event.eventAttendanceMode property from pending to supported? These are in use and have been needed for a while due to the pandemic but there seems to be no movement. Can we get these approved ASAP so libraries such as Schema.NET will implement them? |
@osamahm we have come across the same requirement. For this we propose the following:
This would look as follows:
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@Aaranged, @vholland, @RichardWallis, @danbri I would like to add a perspective to the title here. I think that
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@HughP Maybe you can shoehorn the rest of the information in to an offers property? |
@WeaverStever That is an interesting direction. If I understand you correctly, you're suggesting that an NFT is a type of digital document? It follows then that, rather than describing the thing the NFT represents, the document nature of the NFT should be described? I assume that you mean I should use the https://schema.org/additionalType property and describe the digital document as well as what the thing represents... Thereby perhaps suggesting that case number 3, Could be avoided by focusing on the real world attribute of the object being described.
How would you approach case No. 2 above where there is a hybrid of a real world place and a VR environment? I will say that most users of these digital goods are not thinking of them as digitalDocuments. But how people think about them and how machines think of them need not be the same. |
Doesn't the NFT represent the real-world deed to the virtual property? As for your case 2, you seem to be wanting to create a parallel to the real-world location (a geo-location) that resides within an alternate domain. May I suggest the term "neoLocation"? |
That would be a neo con: Isn't that identity politics?
Unless your sub domain has a comic book stigmatized geo-location? That
would encourage our younger generation and possibly add into a future
academic epidemic!
…On Sat, Oct 30, 2021, 12:46 AM WeaverStever ***@***.***> wrote:
@HughP <https://github.com/HughP>
Doesn't the NFT represent the real-world deed to the virtual property?
As for your case 2, you seem to be wanting to create a parallel to the
real-world location (a geo-location) that resides within an alternate
domain. May I suggest the term "neoLocation"?
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Has this been implemented into Schema.org? I see where it was added as a pending item in v11 and Google has examples using virtualLocation. Where are we at in the process of implementing this? I'm working on updating JSON+LD output for an events API, and since the COVID-19 pandemic, most of these events are online. |
Just want to hop in on this as it seems related - at Spotify we are building an events model. We see events that may have a URL to register, and a separate one to attend - I see that reflected above. What I am less sure about how to represent is when an event takes place within a virtual world. For instance, Spotify has "islands" in Roblox that are only accessible via the app. Within said islands, which are themselves events (ex. an island is "open" for a certain amount of time), there are also performance events and meet&greets with specific performers and again while there may be a url to get to registration, attendance is within the app.
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schema.org currently (as far as I know) has no way of indicating that an Event is online-only. The ability to provide this information could be beneficial to data consumers, who would then be able to distinguish such virtual events from brick-and-mortar events and, if they wish, represent them differently in output products.
For example, Google expects a value for location. While this is a Google-specific requirement, in then nonetheless highlights the fact that there's no method by which could inform Google that an Event lacks a physical location.
Online events are ubiquitous and fall under many categories. Some examples:
Possible approaches
isOnline
OnlineEvent
(with possibly subtypes under that) - although an online event might also be a instance of a more specific type already, like BusinessEventTo this last point see also #298, "applicability of Event to online events e.g. consider Webinar subtype", where @danbri notes that the "Event type was never meant to be so restricted" with regard to the "things with a physical location that you might attend in person".
Issues and considerations
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