Sub-group Members: Alan Greenberg, Avri Doria, Cheryl Langdon-Orr, George Sadowsky, Greg Shatan, Herb Waye, Jordan Carter, Klaus Stoll (8)
Staff: Bernie Turcotte, Brenda Brewer, Patrick Dodson (3)
Apologies: Julf Helsingius
** If your name is missing from attendance or apology, please send note to acct-staff@icann.org **
Transcript
Recording
Agenda
1. Intro: agenda review, attendance, SOI check
2. Staff Engagement
- Report back on 11 April call
- Issues work
- measures” document
- Participation by staff in group
3. Issues analysis table
- Reach initial closure on Issue analysis table
- Decision on sending doc to plenary
4. Document Update
4. 1 Roles of Board, Staff, Community
Further discussion on the Guidelines on delegations to identify any major gaps or issues for further consideration <https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6MyPqTCjxXtUmhGcXVtMm5zSmc>
- Relationship of CEO and Board
- Suggest preparation of a one-page cover that explains the community link
4.2. Current and recommended accountability measures
Doc can be found at: https://docs.google.com/document/d/10vz0giMYeD-M9ptRqD6EFwn0a4Wo5-qvjriEzFWQOyw/edit?usp=sharing
5. Next steps
- On “issues”
- Send issues list to plenary for discussion and review
- Develop possible responses that could resolve problems identified in the Issues table, collaborating with staff.
- On “delegations”
- Draft a one pager that contextualises the existing delegation guidelines, and circulate it for review and discussion among the WG
- On ”measures”
- Will update
1) after new ICANN org staff review process documentation
2) Based on recommended solutions
- On all docs
- Participants to do a edit pass, get familiar with the doc, recommend text and add comments.
6. Schedule update
- Draft documents through to late April
- WG discussion of documents late April, early May (see page 2)
- Document for Plenary Readings
- 1st Mid May
- 2nd End May
- Public comment period - June-July
- Joburg meeting - End June
- Absorb comments and adjust proposals - July-August
- Document for Plenary Readings
- 1st: mid September
- 2nd: end September
- Abu Dhabi meeting - end October
- Updated meeting schedule:
- Friday 21 0500 utc (new)
- Thursday 27 13 UTC (existing)
- Wed 3 May 13 UTC (new)
- Mon 8 May 19 UTC (new)
- Wed 17 May 0500 UTC (new)
- Wed 24 May 1300 UTC (new)
- Wed 31 May 0500 UTC (new)
7. AOB
Notes
Notes (including relevant portions of chat):
7 Participants at start of call
1. Intro: agenda review, attendance, SOI check
(no changes to agenda, no changes to SOIs)
2. Staff Engagement
Avri Doria - had second call - agreement to give this group a presentation on the review process. also discussed how the measures document - they will have a look at. Also discussion how to bring senior staff to work with this group wrt the solution space.
Patrick Dodson - preparation of the material for the review cycle is simply being cleaned up so that it makes sense for non-employees.
George Sadowsky - have we progressed to actually getting to issues or just still structuring how to get to those.
Avri Doria - structuring
3. Issues analysis table
Avri Doria - accepted comments on document so we could work from a clean version. (going through document).
Issue 1 (no comments).
George Sadowsky - did we not do this last week?
Avri Doria - yes it was a first reading last week but some changes were made since then.
Jordan Carter - first five have not had any changes - we could skip.
Alan Greenberg - there may not be an official forum - but even when claims were made they were ignored.
Jordan Carter: It sounds like another "Issue" to me
Klaus Stoll: Same here!
Herb Waye Ombuds: New CEO seems a bit more open to things like that Alan and people can always bring things like that to me...
Issue 2 (no comments)
Klaus Stoll: @ Herb. But that is not a formal procedure and there is the outstanding issue of Ombuds independence.
Alan Greenberg: @Herb, with a potential for him referring it to someone else who ignores it.
Herb Waye Ombuds: agreed... so if ignored I would hope I would be contacted to poke the bear
Alan Greenberg: @Herb, I have had discussions with your predecessor about reluctance of invoking your office. Glad to have the discussion with you as well.
Jordan Carter: I think contributions to that problem would be inconsistent approach by iCANN managers in dealing with feedback
Jordan Carter: and maybe an organisational culture that doesn't support addressing concerns raised by community participants
Issue 3 (no comments)
Issue 4 (no comments)
Issue 5 (no comments)
issue 6 - NEW - (no comments)
Issue 7 - NEW - (no comments)
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): I would accept it
Issue 8 - New at meeting - (no comments)
Avri Doria - is this ok to go to the next plenary? (no objections). DECISION
Alan Greenberg - should make clear its not for a first reading but just for input to the work.
Jordan Carter - Yes have to make that clear in the submission to the CCWG-Acct.
Action Item - write cover note for this and transmit to CCWG-Acct.
Alan Greenberg - May have a new one - uncertain if one of or systemic - staff coming back and saying we do not have resources to do that.
Jordan Carter: is that a staff accountability issue?
Alan Greenberg - if not what is it?
Jordan Carter: it sounds like a resource / organisational capacity / prioritisation issue
Jordan Carter: so it's a unilateral denial of support that is the issue?
Greg Shatan - Staff Accountability applies to all staff up to the CEO - so the answer to Alan's question is true - so there is an issue here b ut its unclear.
Alan Greenberg: I'm willing to drop it at the moment.
Avri Doria - ok lets drop it for now - its not ready.
Greg Shatan - we need to put a pin in this issue.
Patrick Dodson: I think we might frame it as an issue of "appropriate methods for addressing requests that exceed bandidth, resources, budget, etc"
Patrick Dodson: it is an issue of accountability to address capacity constructively.
Jordan Carter: i think Patrick's is a resonable interpretaton to get the discussion moving
Avri Doria - Ok so PD's wording work and we have an issue 9.
4. Document Update
Jordan Carter - had promised to write up a few pages on this but have not done so yet.
Greg Shatan - think this document is odd as an ICANN document.
George Sadowsky - yes all delegation of authority is from the Board.
Greg Shatan: Oversight and Delegation are two different things.
Jordan Carter - this document is an improvement that is evolving - so a work in progress - important to keep in mind when discussing.
Avri Doria - We did mention when looking for the CEO that strategy is for the Board and the community and not for the CEO.
Greg Shatan: Delegation implies that the duty is that of the delegor (the Board) and is being delegated to the delegate the CEO) at the delegor's discretion.
Jordan Carter: and that's how the ICANN Bylaws set the organisation up, isn't it Greg?
Greg Shatan: In other words, that the CEO's job is really the Board's job, but they have delegated that job to the CEO.
Greg Shatan: Jordan, not sure.
George Sadowsky – Confirming that the status of document is DRAFTY.
Avri Doria - no new text. this will be updated after the process review material and we have worked through the issues and have identified any remedies IF they require new procedure.
5. Next steps
6. Schedule update
Avri Doria - have added weekly meeting through May to get the work done.
7. AOB
(none)
Adjourned
Decisions:
- Issues document – added new issue number 8
- Issues document should be sent to plenary for additional input (but not for a first reading)
- Weekly meetings have been added through May to get the work done.
Action Items:
- Avri Doria – Update the Issues document and distribute to the group for final comments by Tuesday 18 April.
- Co-Rapporteurs – to write covering note for plenary regarding expectations vs Issues document for 18 April.
- Avri Doria – Submit updated Issues document with covering note to be presented at next plenary for Wednesday 19 April (this is nor for a first reading).
- Jordan Carter – write few pages for Roles of Board, Staff, Community for next group meeting 20 April.
Documents Presented
Chat Transcript
Brenda Brewer:Good day all and welcome to Staff Accountability Subgroup Meeting #14 on 13 April 2017 @ 19:00 UTC!
Brenda Brewer:If you are not speaking, please mute your phone by pressing *6 (star 6). To unmute press *6. Thank you!
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):I will only be in AC until my other teleconference ends
Bernard Turcotte Staff Support:hello all
Bernard Turcotte Staff Support:thank goodness for POTS
avri doria:yes thank goodness for POTs
Jordan Carter:morning all
Brenda Brewer:Cheryl will join when other meeting ends.
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):morning Jordan
Brenda Brewer:let me know when you are ready for dial out...if needed.
Herb Waye Ombuds:Hi everyone
Jordan Carter:i'm on a v slow connection it seems, so I don't know how possible it will be to talk - will do my best
Klaus Stoll:I am back in this group after a health break.
Jordan Carter:welcome back Klaus
Klaus Stoll:Thanks all!!!!
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):my phone was and still is muted locally on the handset, so should not have caused echo
Jordan Carter:Alan, could you put your phone on mute?
Jordan Carter:nothing to add from me
Jordan Carter:[everyone should be muted unless they are speaking]
Bernard Turcotte Staff Support:CLO forced muted you and it seems to have fixed the echo
Bernard Turcotte Staff Support:@CLO advise and I will take you off mute
Jordan Carter:i lost audio for a bit but seem to be back
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):bugger it I will stay muted, and as my phone handset is muted and my micro is not connected in AC I have no idea why my phone line is problematic today... oh well gremlins abound I guess
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):certainly silence from me
Greg Shatan:We hear you!
George Sadowsky:You want an echo?
Patrick Dodson:loud and clear!
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):apparently I can provide one George ;-)
Bernard Turcotte Staff Support:Jordan hand
Greg Shatan:Talking into the ozone can be a bit disconcerting.... As one comedian says "Heckle me, so I'll know you're still breathing!"
Bernard Turcotte Staff Support:Jordan no sound
Jordan Carter:ok I will need a dial out
Bernard Turcotte Staff Support:give us a number on skype
Brenda Brewer:calling you Jordan
George Sadowsky:Didn't we go through this exercise a week ago?
George Sadowsky:ok
Alan Greenberg:It is a "best practice" Not always an efficient practice.
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):indeed Alan
Jordan Carter:I would support two thorough reads if we were finalising this work, but what we are seeking next is input from the whole CCWZg
Jordan Carter:It sounds like another "Issue" to me
Klaus Stoll:Same here!
Herb Waye Ombuds:New CEO seems a bit more open to things like that Alan and people can always bring things like that to me...
Klaus Stoll:@ Herb. But that is not a formal procedure and there is the outstanding issue of Ombuds independence.
Alan Greenberg:@Herb, with a potential for him referring it to someone else who ignores it.
Herb Waye Ombuds:agreed... so if ignored I would hope I would be contacted to poke the bear
Alan Greenberg:@Herb, I have had discussions with your predecessor about reluctance of invoking your office. Glad to have the discussion with you as well.
Jordan Carter:I think contributions to that problem would be inconsistent approach by iCANN managers in dealing with feedback
Jordan Carter:and maybe an organisational culture that doesn't support addressing concerns raised by community participants
Jordan Carter:cha not related to that bullet point
Jordan Carter:this stuff relates to ALAN's point
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):I would accept it
Jordan Carter:I did a write up in the Google doc of what Alan said
avri doria:https://docs.google.com/document/d/12ihFgBE5lcVTfiL6wft9MsOqHaSSKnzIDd1utROosNU/edit?usp=sharing
Jordan Carter:8. When concerns about a particular incident or experience related to staff accountability (or performance?) are raised, the response by ICANN managers has sometimes been to set the concerns aside and not respond. [raised on call 13 April]
Jordan Carter:Alan - would be good to see if this is a fair interpretation of what you said :-)
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):thx Jordan
Jordan Carter:i suggeted the two contributions noted above
Alan Greenberg:I'm ok with the wording.
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):no objection to go to CCWG
Klaus Stoll:No objections
Jordan Carter:yep
Jordan Carter:is that a staff accountability issue?
Jordan Carter:it sounds like a resource / organisational capacity / prioritisation issue
Jordan Carter:so it's a unilateral denial of support that is the issue?
Bernard Turcotte Staff Support:Time check - 25 minutes left in call
Alan Greenberg:I'm willing to drop it at the moment.
Jordan Carter:I think we should add something along these lines just to summon it up
Jordan Carter:how about you raise it verbally in the plenary discussion?
Jordan Carter:you = Alan
Patrick Dodson:I think we might frame it as an issue of "appropriate methods for addressing requests that exceed bandidth, resources, budget, etc"
Patrick Dodson:it is an issue of accountability to address capacity constructively.
Jordan Carter:i think Patrick's is a resonable interpretaton to get the discussion moving
Bernard Turcotte Staff Support:Wednesday 19 April 23:59UTC
avri doria:thank you Bernie
Greg Shatan:Oversight and Delegation are two different things.
Greg Shatan:Delegation implies that the duty is that of the delegor (the Board) and is being delegated to the delegate the CEO) at the delegor's discretion.
Jordan Carter:and that's how the ICANN Bylaws set the organisation up, isn't it Greg?
Greg Shatan:In other words, that the CEO's job is really the Board's job, but they have delegated that job to the CEO.
Greg Shatan:Jordan, not sure.
Bernard Turcotte Staff Support:time check - 10 minutes left in call
Alan Greenberg:We COULD end early...
Jordan Carter:we might just manage that !
Herb Waye Ombuds:My wife awaits my arrival in the barn to clean horse stalls... please take your time...
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):lol
Greg Shatan:I will resist the attempt to draw analogies from Herb's last remark....
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):goodlan Avri / Jordan... thanks
Herb Waye Ombuds::-)
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):good plan that should read
Jordan Carter:goodlan?
Jordan Carter:sorry, reading too slowly :)
Jordan Carter:thanks all, good call
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):thanks everyone bye for now then
Herb Waye Ombuds:Have a great weekend everyone, thanks SAvri
Bernard Turcotte Staff Support:by all
Greg Shatan:Bye all!
Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO):same to you Avri
